Episode 15 – Dan Englander – Sales Schema

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Welcome to Episode 15 of the Cognified Marketing and Selling Podcast . When it comes to account management and Explainer videos, Dan Englander – Sales Schema knows a lot about the topics. Dan wrote four books about these topics called, Mastering Account Management, The Lean Explainer Video, Don’t Go Viral, and The B2B Sales Blueprint and they’re all good books.

An Agency Veteran – Dan Englander – Sales Schema

Dan Englander began a career in the advertising business and quickly became an important part of a small, start-up agency in the budding business of explainer animations called, IdeaRocket. In this information-packed episode, Dan and I discuss a wide range of topics including:

  • A way to help agencies win more business – Hint: these apply to medical device sales territories and medical practices, too!
  • Hear Dan’s biggest challenge is starting a new business and positioning his offer.
  • Learn how to approach new business.
  • Dan tells the story of how he pivoted his business and why.
  • How Dan decided to fill an efficiency gap how you do that.
  • Why starting with what you know works well is the best plan.
  • The biggest change that Dan Englander – Sales Schema has seen in his career.
  • How the sales cycle is changing – Dan calls it “optionality.”
  • Why keeping the pendulum in the middle is selling and marketing smarter for Dan.
  • Avoid highly tactical sales books.
  • Hear about a significant decision Dan made and how it turned out.
  • Who Dan Englander – Sales Schema thinks is making some interesting moves these days.
  • How the speed of decisions is changing.
  • Learn about educational content Dan is developing to help people grow their agencies.
  • Dan Englander  – Sales Schema highly recommends a book called “Obliquity.”

This interview with Dan Englander was a pleasure. Dan is a smart man with good insights into lots of topics that I know will interest a lot of the Cognified Marketing and Selling Podcast listeners and subscribers.

If you like what you hear on the show, and you’d like to be notified about when new episodes go up, put your information in the box below. Don’t worry – there will be no SPAM…

As always, thanks for your time and listening to my work. I’m grateful you decided to stop by. If you want to leave a comment, you may do so way down at the bottom after the transcript of the conversation with Dan Englander – Sales Schema

Joel Gaslin, Dan Englander – Sales Schema – Episode 15 Transcript

Presenter:  [00:00] Welcome to the “Cognified Marketing and Selling Podcast” where we share interviews, stories, strategies, and even a few rants with doctors, marketers, and sales reps that are in the trenches, people just like you. We’ll explore ideas, discuss technologies, and learn how to market and sell smarter. Now, from Minneapolis, Minnesota, here’s your host, Joel Gaslin.

Joel Gaslin:  [00:19] Welcome back to Episode Number 15 of the Cognified Marketing and Selling Podcast. My guest today is Dan Englander. Dan is the founder and CEO of Sales Schema. Dan, thanks for coming on the show today. Grateful to have you.

Dan Englander – Sales Schema:  [00:32] Thanks for having me on, Joel. I appreciate it.

Joel:  [00:33] Dan and I first met, I think it might have been in 2014, at the ad:tech meeting in New York City.

Dan:  [00:38] Correct.

Joel:  [00:38] I was running around the trade show. It was my first time I had been to that meeting. It was good. I met Dan. He was the one who really ‑‑ pardon the pun ‑‑ explained to me about explainer videos and how that whole thing worked. Dan, I’d be grateful if you’d share with the listeners a little bit about your background and what you’re working on these days.

Dan:  [00:56] Absolutely. I moved to New York out of college in 2010 and ended up in the agency space as a grand account coordinator, teaching things through different brands and stuff, a lot of stuff that didn’t really go anywhere. I was the one who was the [inaudible] coming up with various RFPs and that sort of thing in managing client accounts.

[01:16] I was looking and landed this job at a startup explainer video company, the type of company that is creating high‑quality animation for brands, then tech startups and that sort of thing. It was a very fun product to sell. That’s how we met, Joel.

[01:32] After a while, I started Sales Schema as a way to help agency owners win new business and stay consistent about that. Essentially, we’re an outsourced new business team for them.

Joel:  [01:45] How’s it going for you since you started? What’s been the biggest challenge that you’ve had to overcome?

Dan:  [01:50] It’s been going well. The main challenge is just figuring out the best way to position the offer and make it a no‑brainer for people to work with us. When we started out, we started out as a coaching and consulting model.

[02:04] The problem was we were working with lots of busy agency owners and high‑level new business people. They just didn’t want more information. They wanted somebody that could actually get things done. They didn’t really quite understand the best way to approach it and the best way to approach new business. They were caught between the sales client service shuffle.

[02:24] Eventually, we pivoted into more of a done it for you model. The biggest challenge has been figuring out the best way this is going to slot into their process and slot into what they’re up against already.

Joel:  [02:34] How did that process work when you pivoted like that? What were the steps that you went through to help that happen?

Dan:  [02:40] It’s a good question. It started out with us just having lots of conversations and then being in a more consulting‑based role to give them the plan, give them what I had learned from years of running email campaigns, doing outreach, and having sales conversations with people selling creative services, selling into agencies, selling for agencies and so on.

[02:59] The process happened in that people ask us to start this business. Maybe not directly but in a pretty roundabout way [laughs] and based on lots of data. There’s a great Derek Sivers line. He’s one of these developing types, really up‑rolling guy. He’s like, “I don’t think anyone just starts a business unless they’re asked to.” [laughs] That’s what happened with us.

[03:26] We grew to fill an efficiency gap. That’s the more recent minor revelation we’ve had. It’s really easy to get into the habit of selling information, but information is getting cheaper. It’s getting easier to come by the strategy. You might be able to sell a strategy to somebody. You might just be a few blog posts or a few books ahead of them, as I’ve heard other people relay this idea on [inaudible] and some other places.

[03:54] I don’t want to take all the credit for it. It’s becoming easier in a time where information is very abundant to solve an efficiency gap, basically making this easier for people. That’s the process we went through. I hope it answers the question.

Joel:  [04:07] That’s interesting. It does. I love to learn when I have the opportunity to have a conversation with guys like you. You may remember that our business at Sightpath Medical, what we do is help ophthalmologists and their facilities have access to the high‑tech equipment on a per‑procedure basis, instead of owning it themselves. We function in the cataract and LASIK surgery business.

[04:32] About four years ago, we started an internal agency that we call Sightpath Creative because, just as you suggested, some of our clients were asking us. They’re LASIK practices, but the LASIK practices we work with were small general ophthalmologists. They had lots of things to do. They want to be a dad. They want to be an ophthalmologist. They want to be a mom. They run a small business.

[04:53] What was left on the sidelines was generally promoting their business or promoting their service. We started this little agency. It’s grown quite nicely, yet we still find ourselves where people say just what you said, Dan. They say, “Just do it for me.” What we try to do and what we do do is we put things in campaigns so that they’re in these little packages.

[05:15] We say, “Look, here. This is how this works.” We’re wrestling with, “OK, do we take it to the next level? Do we have a call center for them? Do we get into Web development for them? Do we really do those full services?” When you were doing your pivot, how did you know where to…Where do you draw the line, because you can’t be all things to all people?

Dan:  [05:34] It’s a good question. We really started small. We would slowly add on different services. We started with what we knew to work really well, which was outreach, using email, using phone, getting leads for our clients, and then eventually moving that on to a situation where we’re booking them on to our clients’ calendars for them.

[05:55] They’re just picking up the phone, reading a briefing, and keeping the pipeline full that way. The short answer is it was just something that I had done a lot before, that our team has done a lot before. It’s the most straightforward path that we found for high‑ticket B2B new business in sales.

[06:13] That’s not to say that inbound doesn’t work really well, too. It just takes a lot longer. If you have a finite audience, there’s no reason not to just go directly to them and have a conversation and so on. That’s a pretty good way to do that if you do it right.

Joel:  [06:30] That’s great. What’s the biggest change you’ve seen in selling and marketing during your career?

Dan:  [06:33] There’s been lots of changes. The new one, and this is something that I’ve read a lot about and observed myself from people like Dan Pink, who wrote “To Sell is Human” relatively recently.

Joel:  [06:47] I love that book.

Dan:  [06:49] It’s great. There’s parity between buyers and sellers in terms of the information that they have. It’s been a long time coming. It’s not like these things happen overnight. It’s just increased more and more. The channels and the methods of communication now could be a lot more efficient.

[07:06] Tangibly, what that means is you might get people pretty close to the finish line by the time they talk to you, or well enough along in terms of the information they have before they speak. There’s now a big informational edge. It’s more about your ability to execute and your ability to do things consistently, if that makes sense.

Joel:  [07:26] It does. What impact do you think that has on how people think about the sales cycle?

Dan:  [07:34] It’s a good question. People are hoarding information maybe a little bit less than they used to. They are probably weighing optionality more than ever because it’s worth it. Because there’s so many more options and there’s so many more providers, there’s more competition. The Internet has leveled the playing field in a way. The value of optionality is a lot higher.

[07:58] Tangibly, in our industry, there’s less of this agency and record model, where somebody is going to sign on for an agency for years at a time. It’s more just a project‑based model. That’s probably trickling down to most industries in different ways.

Joel:  [08:14] We find that in our industry, too, that the competition is different. It still can be really long. That’s just a nuance for our industry. What does it mean to you to sell a market smarter?

Dan:  [08:26] It’s a good question. If you’re in marketing and you’re used to looking at different figures, various SaaS products, spreadsheets, or whatever, and you see an up‑tick or you see a down‑tick, it’s easier to be emotionally detached for it. Our realm is sales and working with marketing people to get them better at sales, in a nutshell, because we’re working with agencies a lot. That’s what I’m speaking to.

[08:55] For that, selling smarter is basically not getting [laughs] too down about the nos and not getting too up about yeses. Just maintaining a consistent process. Giving things that are due. Weighing it so you actually have data before making huge decisions and swerving. That’s really been huge for me personally, just keeping the pendulum in the middle, if that makes sense.

Joel:  [09:22] It does, yeah. I can relate to that. As a leader of a sales team, I have to play that role sometimes of, “Hey, good job here and good job there,” even though you lost, because you still did everything you could. You’re not going to win everyone.

Dan:  [09:39] It could be correct but wrong. [laughs]

Joel:  [09:42] That’s right. That’s a good way to think about it. Over the years, how do you learn how to get better at what you’re doing? What sort of tools do you rely on and tap into?

Dan:  [09:55] It’s a good question. More so lately, I’ve been trying to build different mental models in different places. I try not to get too involved in really tactical sales books, these strategies and really specific things that you can do, because I got carried away from that approach.

[10:18] For me, it’s been reading books from other areas and seeing what I can apply in my daily life. I ran so far away from really tactical stuff. Now I’m circling back to it again. I’m like, “OK, now that I understand how the engine works, I can understand how to make the [inaudible] work.” [laughs]

[10:37] Maybe that’s not the best metaphor. Now I’m circling back to, “All right. When we set up this crazy Facebook Ads funnel, we’ll see if it works for us,” [laughs] and that thing. We’ll see where that goes.

Joel:  [10:51] That’s cool. I’m like you. I grew up the son of a guy with a PhD in math education. I had it drilled into my head that you learn how to think, learn how to solve problems, and then stay inside the theory. The rest of it falls into place. Just sitting and doing problems and problems. Problems was the best way to learn mathematics.

[11:13] I’ve been reading a lot of Peter Drucker lately. I love his work. For him, from a strategy and business management. Michael Porter’s “Competitive Strategy” book is still something I just pick up and flip to things when I’m thinking about them. To really…

[11:33] [crosstalk]

Dan:  [11:33] Drucker’s…Sorry, I didn’t mean to…I was going to say that Drucker…

Joel:  [11:37] Go ahead.

Dan:  [11:38] is great. I actually just know him from the quotes. I can BS ever on Drucker just because everyone knows his quotes, like, “That which is measured is managed.” What is it? “The worst thing you can do is doing efficiently that which should not be done at all.” That’s how I know Drucker.

Joel:  [11:55] He was just really quotable. One of my favorite ones of his is his definition of strategy is “Doing the right things right.” [laughs] It’s a really fairly simple definition that I can wrap my arms around. What I like to do is I’m an exerciser in the morning. I have all his books through Audible. I just listen to him when I’m working out. I pick things up. It works for me. That’s fun.

Dan:  [12:23] Audible has made things a lot easier. I wish I had a more rhyme or reason system for what I choose to listen to versus read on Kindle versus actually get the physical copy, but things just become arbitrary. [laughs] I need to figure that out.

Joel:  [12:36] I’m with you. If you walk into my den, I’ve got books all over the place, much to my wife’s frustration. If you were to look in my library on my iPhone or iPad, you’d say, “Gosh, how does this guy’s brain work, because there’s really no logic to this?” I read stuff that’s interesting to me.

Dan:  [12:54] That’s a good enough reason. [laughs]

Joel:  [12:56] I’m into artificial intelligence these days. My wife would say I’m obsessed with it, how it applies to marketing and what’s happening out there. Are you reading anything on that? What do you think about AI applied to our industry?

Dan:  [13:08] I’m not an expert. My BS detector goes off a lot because there’s a lot of people using AI to get venture rounds [laughs] and get people to buy stuff. There’s definitely people doing really crazy interesting things with it.

[13:27] I don’t know a whole lot about it yet. One area where we’ve seen it work really well is for scheduling. There’s scheduling apps that mimic emails and doing straightforward tasks like that. It’s pretty impressive.

Joel:  [13:45] There is a lot of good stuff out there. You’re right. The BS detector can say, “What’s this all about?” because there’s some weird stuff.

Dan:  [13:55] It’s part of the course, though, that that’s going to happen. [laughs]

Joel:  [13:57] That’s true with anything. Tell us about a significant decision you made in your career and how it turned out, either good or bad.

Dan:  [14:04] It turned out good. This was early on, right before I started Sales Schema. It was to write a book. I worked at IdeaRocket, which is where we met, for a long time and did account management. Account management can take a lot of different forms. Essentially, it was like a split client service sales for all, which is the pretty typical form it takes.

[14:22] A friend of mine, Mike Fishbein, was really into self‑publishing at the time. He said, “You should write a book.” I said, “You’re crazy. That’s impossible. That’s a huge thing. That’s a huge undertaking,” blah blah blah. He said, “You probably wrote papers in college and did a thesis or whatever.” I said, “Yeah, I did.” He was like, “You can write a book.”

[14:39] I did. I edited it with lots of people in my personal network. I got lots of good feedback, and then went through the grind on it for a long time. I self‑published it. It turned out really well. I got some of my first clients for the business that way.

[14:56] That was one decision that I did by happenstance at the time. It turned out really well. There were a lot of other different experiments and things that just didn’t go anywhere, usually of that highly tactical variety like, “Set up this funnel. Do this weird marketing strategy or whatever.” That one worked out.

Joel:  [15:11] This was “Mastering Account Management.” Was that the book?

Dan:  [15:15] Yeah, that was the first one.

Joel:  [15:17] All right. What are the highlights of that book?

Dan:  [15:13] Oh, man, [inaudible] . It’s been a little while. It’s to set up systems, make sure that you’re not task switching too much that you’re keeping client service and sales [inaudible], and that you’re maintaining a consistent process for both if you are in one of these roles.

[15:32] Obviously, if you’re an account manager, but if you’re also in an ownership position, this is very common, where you’re split between fulfillment in sales, especially in the early days. Even now, we’ll talk to 100‑person agencies, where the partners are still doing 90 percent of all the sales, which is just crazy. They’ve gotten this far without ever hiring for a dedicated sales role.

[15:55] If you are in that position, it’s really about setting up the right systems. That was what the book is about. I’ll flip through it occasionally. Some things will be like, “I need to update this.” [laughs] Most of it still holds true. That was a good early decision.

Joel:  [16:12] I like that. If you’d indulge me for a second, I’ve been wrestling with the book that I want to write. I want to write a business book. I’m also still working on a fiction story that I have. My wife keeps telling me, you’ve got to write that first because it’s a timely thing in technology right now, anyway

[16:31] The business one that I’m working on, I’m calling it “Cognified Marketing and Selling,” just because I like the word cognified. I didn’t come up with it. It’s the past tense of cognify. Wikipedia says, “It’s the aha moment when realization occurs in psychology.” I got it when I was reading Kevin Kelly’s book called, “The Inevitable ‑‑ The 12 Forces of Technology That Will Shape Our Future.” Have you read that book?

Dan:  [16:56] I haven’t read that. I’m familiar with his blog stuff. Is it “10,000 True Fans,” or is it “1,000 True Fans?” I’m not sure [laughs] what the number is.

Joel:  [17:03] It’s 1,000 True Fans.

Dan:  [17:05] 1,000?

Joel:  [17:06] Yeah.

Dan:  [17:06] That makes more sense. [laughs]

Joel:  [17:08] As you know, he’s the original editor of “Wired” magazine. His second force was “Cognify.” His whole thing is that adding a little bit of intelligence to even the dumbest process can change the world. I horribly paraphrased his more eloquent way he phrased all that. That’s what I took away from him.

[17:29] I just like that word. When I was sitting there, I just started buying up everything cognified that I could find from URLs. I’m a URL hoarder. I want to write this book. I have these different things you’d go through to take a sales process and marketing process. The line between sales and marketing is coming closer together.

[17:51] When I was a sales rep, I used this method, it’s funny you talked about tactical because this is really a tactical book. I realized that I’ve come down to where I want to release mini‑books to create one series, maybe to chunk it out a little bit. I started to get, “OK, I’m going to write this tome.” I just didn’t get anywhere. I said, “OK, how can I chunk this up?”

[18:15] I’ve create these different things I want to do. I’m thinking about starting with the last one first, if that makes any sense. I called it “Zone Selling” because that’s what I did when I had a big sales territory. I broke it up into four zones. I worked within those zones, planned my time, and planned my schedule. It really worked.

[18:33] Frankly, we coached our sales team that way. We have our CRM system, our Salesforce.com set up so that we have zones within them. We can track activities and things around, “OK, are you working your zone?” I’m thinking about starting with that book, and then over time, releasing those other books. What do you think about that idea?

Dan:  [18:51] I think that that’s a really challenging way to do it. It’s almost like you’re prototyping it. If you can think of a book like a tech product, a piece of software, or any other product for that matter, it starts with a prototype. It gets put against volatility, feedback and all that stuff. It gets better that way. You can do it in portions. There’s a lot to be said for that, for sure.

Joel:  [19:15] Thanks. My plan is to self‑publish it, like you did. What you did was you wrote it. You just used your friends as editors. Did you have any professional editors? How did you do that?

Dan:  [19:26] For the last stage, I got a professional editor. Before that, I was getting the more substantial edits, feedback, and stuff from friends.

Joel:  [19:32] How long did the process take you?

Dan:  [19:34] It probably took six months to a year.

Joel:  [19:34] That’s not too bad. I’ve already got a lot rewritten. Interesting.

Dan:  [19:39] You can do it a lot faster, though, [laughs] if you really want to, as long as there’s some sort of deadline.

Joel:  [19:50] I’m grateful that I’m 52 years old. I have four kids that are all through college now. It’s my wife and me. I work a lot at Sightpath still. My hobby is doing this, what I’m doing now, and writing. I certainly have the bandwidth if I want to get focused on it. That’s good advice. Thank you.

[20:08] The question that everybody loves is, i you could be reincarnated as one businessperson, whom would it be? What’s one thing you’d do differently than they did?

Dan:  [20:18] I don’t have a great answer.

Joel:  [20:19] There’s no bad answer.

[20:21] [laughter]

Dan:  [20:22] I’m going to strip the question a little bit. Like everybody else, I’m just a Bezos fan boy right now. I don’t know if I want to be reincarnated as that guy. It’s funny. I don’t think that I’m crazy enough to be into the idea of being one of these mogul business people from the past. I think that you had to be insane to do that.

[20:45] The means of production were such that you had to bank your whole life on this idea and hope it would work. Some people like the Henry Fords of the world made it happen. All the others, you never have heard of because they just [laughs] probably went insane and maybe died in squalor or whatever. There’s a big survivor bias with that.

[21:02] If I was born years ago, before the Internet, I probably wouldn’t be running a business. I’d probably be doing something else, I would imagine. I don’t know. It’s not a question I thought about a lot, although it’s a pretty interesting one. I follow what Bezos is doing. He just tends to impress me more for the breadth of what he’s done and the force of nature he is to create this model that he has.

[21:28] Now, he’s making these very interesting under‑the‑radar moves from Washington. They’re going to keep getting bigger as time goes on because he’s not there. He’s not making money from “The Washington Post,” but he bought The Washington Post.

Joel:  [21:44] When you’re the richest man in the world, you can have other metrics of how you measure success of your ventures, right? [laughs]

Dan:  [21:52] Sure. I think that he’s interested in space, if I had to speculate. He obviously is. He owns a business doing that. If you think about the fact that we got from the horse and buggy to the moon within less than 60 years, what was it? [laughs] Maybe 60 to 80 or something?

[22:09] That came from massive taxpayer investment because of the Cold War. He probably understands that dynamic, maybe in a way that’s a little above Musk. I just like paying attention to what he’s doing. He also has all sorts of great letters to shareholders, essays, and stuff. There’s one that was great about the speed of decision making now.

[22:35] In Amazon, they’re making decisions with 70 percent information. If they wait longer, it’s a bigger cost than to go off partially ready. There’s just all sorts of things that I pay close attention to these days.

Joel:  [22:50] That’s great. What are you working on, Dan, that you’re promoting right now or something you’d like to talk about? How did you get started with that project?

Dan:  [22:58] Right now, we are doing a lot more educational content for agency owners. Our website, SalesSchema.com, is the best place to check that out. We’re doing a lot more teaching, a lot more showing people what we’re doing to be generating about 50 to 120 relationships for our clients annually.

[23:15] That’s the main thing. Just in general, the content we’re putting out there, just trying to get that on people’s radar.

Joel:  [23:21] I was looking through it. You have some nice stuff. That’s very nicely done.

Dan:  [23:26] Thank you. I appreciate it.

Joel:  [23:27] What else have I not asked you about that perhaps you’d like to talk about?

Dan:  [23:31] Oh, man, just the current books and stuff. Right now, what else am I reading? That’s always fun to talk about. I just finished “Finite and Infinite Games,” which is really cool, which is basically at the [laughs] very, very edge of my comprehension. I’m not going to be able to give it a good summary.

[23:48] It’s about game theory. I definitely recommend checking it out. That was cool. A really good negotiation book called “Never Split the Difference” by Chris Voss. He’s a former FBI negotiator.

Joel:  [23:58] It’s sitting on my desk right now. I read the first chapter. It’s a good book.

Dan:  [24:03] It’s great. It’s really entertaining. Let’s see what else has been good. There’s a book called “Obliquity” by John Kay, which is basically about the idea that most companies, people or everyone of fame that are achieving X, Y, Z massive success metrics ‑‑ maybe that’s revenue or something else ‑‑ usually aren’t aiming for that. They’re aiming for some other thing.

[24:27] The one story from that book that stands out to me, I forgot what it was. They might not have even named the company. It was a big industrial Fortune 500 that had gone through all sorts of attrition with the CEO. Then they got this one CEO that was speaking with the shareholders for the first time.

[24:44] He stood up. He said, “We’re only going to focus on the workers’ safety.” The stock tanked. Everybody thought he was crazy because he said very little else in the speech. That’s what he did. He focused just on workers’ safety and really not much else.

[24:59] In this oblique way, it trickled down to every other aspect of the business because people had to communicate better. They had to make all these better processes. People had to think more about each other in order to maintain safety. Then everything else worked out well. They became a well‑oiled machine. Stock price quadrupled or whatever. It’s pretty interesting.

Joel:  [25:18] What’s the name of that book?

Dan:  [25:21] Obliquity.

Joel:  [25:21] I like that. That’s cool. Anything else?

Dan:  [25:24] That’s all for me. [laughs]

Joel:  [25:25] That’s good. I’m grateful to have you on the show. I appreciate you making the effort to…Let’s see your time. It’s 9:30 for you. That’s way past my bedtime, generally.

Dan:  [25:38] I’m up [laughs] for now.

Joel:  [25:42] How do people get a hold of you? Where do you hang out so that people can learn more about you other than Sales Schema? You mentioned that. Anything else you want to share with how people can get in touch with you?

Dan:  [25:55] SalesSchema.com is probably the best way or email, which is just my name, [email protected] That’s sales then schema, as in schematics, so S‑C‑H‑E‑M‑A.

Joel:  [26:04] You have a Twitter handle or anything like that you use?

Dan:  [26:03] No. I haven’t been that active on Twitter. Maybe I should be. I’ve been out of commission there.

Joel:  [26:11] You’re not alone there. I’m sporadic at best in some of that stuff. Thanks a lot, Dan. It was nice to talk to you. Keep in touch. Let me know if can do anything for you.

Dan:  [26:19] Likewise, Joel. I appreciate it.

Joel:  [26:21] Thanks. Have a good night. Bye‑bye.

Dan:  [26:24] Thanks. You, too.

[26:19] [pause]

Joel:  [26:19] That will do it for another episode of the Cognified Marketing and Selling Podcast. Thanks a lot for stopping by. If you like what you hear and you’d like to subscribe or even leave a review, I’d sure be grateful.

[26:39] You may find our feed on iTunes at Cognified Marketing and Selling Podcast, again on iTunes. Or you may stop by the blog, joelgaslin.com. It’s Joel, J‑O‑E‑L, Gaslin, G‑A‑S‑L‑I‑N, dot‑com. You can listen to it there and subscribe there as well. Thanks again, and hope you’re doing great.

Transcription by CastingWords

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