This interview on the Cognified Marketing and Selling Podcast with Michael Dobkowski of Glacial Multimedia was fun to do. Mike’s an engaging guy with lots of good tips about internet marketing, lead-to-consult ideas with patients and many other topics related to digital marketing. Glacial Multimedia is the leading website development firm in ophthalmology. In addition, Glacial is developing unique software to help ophthalmologists succeed in today’s digital marketplace and win.
This interview lasts about thirty minutes and there is a media player below if you’d like to listen instead of reading. As always, you may find the Cognified Marketing and Selling podcast on iTunes.
Joel Gaslin: Welcome back to the Cognified Marketing and Selling Podcast. My guest today is Michael Dobkowski. Michael is one of the founders and the owner Glacial Multimedia in Portland, Maine.
Michael and I have known each other for a lot of years. He’s worked with us at Sightpath to help us grow our business with our collective customers and just been a great friend of the industry and friend to Sightpath. With that, I’ll let Michael give you a little of the background to his story.
Michael Dobkowski: Joel, thanks for having me today. I love doing these kinds of things.
Just to give you a little bit of a background before we get started, my name’s Michael Dobkowski. I’m the CEO and president of Glacial Multimedia. We’ve been working in the ophthalmology space for over 17 years now.
We’ve been primarily focused on designing websites, doing Internet marketing, and then also the software piece, of which we’ll get into a little bit today, has become more of a reality for us over the last few years. We’ve been working on this web-based software model. Those are the basic main criteria of what we do here at Glacial.
Quick Value Idea
Joel: That’s great. As a value for if someone just chooses not to listen any further after this then, you’ve looked at and been around websites in ophthalmology for 17 years, as you said, and probably even longer, since before you started Glacial.
If you look at the industry right now and you look at people’s websites, what’s the most important thing that they should be thinking about for their website today?
Michael: At the end of the day, engagement objects is essentially the most important thing. If you’re looking to acquire more patients and you’re looking to do more surgery, there’s two real main things.
The website needs to look modern and clean, needs to match the technology that you’re delivering at the practice. On the flip side, you need to have the conversion objects or engagement objects on the website designed to either get that call, or get that form filled out.
If I had to pick two, those would be the two, but I have a top 10, 11 tips for ophthalmology website design that you can check out on my blog, too. If I had to pick two things, it would be those two things.
Joel: Great. In the show notes, I’ll put a link to that resource. If you’d be kind to send me a link to that, I’ll make sure that gets into the show notes so we can get people directed to your blog.
Michael: Interestingly enough, I just had to do the exercise for the LENSAR users group meeting at the American Academy of Ophthalmology a few weeks. I just decided to make it a little article since I had to do the exercise anyway. [laughs] If it’s of any value to anyone, you’re welcome to get some advice from there.
Joel: Appreciate it.
Michael: No problem.
Joel: I know that you and I have talked a lot over the years about what’s happening in the ophthalmology world in terms of premium technology adoption and communicating with patients and getting people to move towards a new technology. Tell me about what you’re working on in that area, what you have going on.
Michael: It’s interesting. Actually, I’ve been following this pipeline, this channel, since before I even did Glacial. We’re talking about 20 years ago. Ironically, we had the conversation about Filemaker Pro.
But my first foray into solving this problem of basically content marketing, educating patients about a particular new eye surgery technology, and trying to move them essentially from what we call lead to surgery status…I’ve been working on this pipeline 20 years back. First attempt at this was something we did at a company I worked at in the Chicago area called QVS Technology Group.
We had a thing that was made in Filemaker Pro. This was basically a lead tracking software that was designed to take the patient from lead to surgery. It was specifically for practices that were trying to convert people to a hyperopic [inaudible 4:25] technology that’s no longer pertinent.
Joel: Was it Sunrise? What was it?
Michael: It was the LTK procedures. We built the lead tracking software. Ironically, it was built in Filemaker Pro. I’ve been really working on this and doing this.
As Glacial got going, what happened was we would build these websites. We would do paid search. We’d do SEO. At this time, it was pre-Google Analytics, doctors would be like, “Hey, you know, Mike, this is great and all. But what does it mean to me, you know? What’s the ROI here? Like how do I know the money I’m spending with you guys is translating into surgeries?”
Honestly, that little piece right there is really where people used to be focused, where they should be focused now. With all the data out there, people have a tendency to get out in the weeks.
At the end of the day, sometimes, I even have to pull my staff back in and say, “Hey, it’s nice you have all this data from Google and everything. But the piece, wh-, it’s not connecting to the objectives of the practice, you know.”
There’s a disconnect between Google Analytics data and surgical volume and return on investment. How do you bridge that? That was initially what the concept for MDprospects was. That’s where it came from.
MD Prospects Software
Joel: Tell me about MDprospects.
Michael: MDprospects, we started building it 2007. It was probably around the time where web-based software was first coming out. We were excited that…
Let me back a little bit. Before MDprospects, there was a product Mark Danzo created. It was called RefractiveWare. In between the Filemaker thing and then MDprospects was this product called RefractiveWare. Mark Danzo made it. He owns a practice in the Denver area now. But he used to be a marketing consultant in the LASIK space.
Joel: Is he related to Jay Bansal?
Michael: No, it’s Mark Banzo.
Joel: Oh, OK. I thought you said…
Michael: I know Jay Bansal, but this was Mark Banzo. Mark Banzo was actually an OD. Now he works for the 20/20 Institute. I think got a location in Indianapolis and one in Denver.
Mark basically built a system similar to MDprospects. But it was the kind of system that you had to install locally. You had to install it on a computer. That was an issue for a lot of people. Then it was very difficult to export. You couldn’t really export a CSV. It became difficult to remarket to your leads things that were stuck in the lead status.
It was fair use. It was the best out there at the time. Then the company I think just basically stopped servicing it. But we never really forgot about that idea.
Then we had the chance to do something similar when the web-based thing happened. We really started down that path of…Lead tracking originally was the first piece of MDprospects. What transpired over the years is that we’ve built other components in that really complement lead tracking or work towards the total goal of the return on investment scenario.
Joel: When you think about MDprospects, how does a person go about getting started with it, implementing it? What are the things you see where people maybe do well with it and then for what they stumble over? How do we help them fix that?
Michael: That’s a great question, Joel. MDprospects is a very powerful tool. It can give the doctor a lot of information. It’s got integrations via the Sophrona portal with NextGen and direct with iMedicWare. You can get a really full picture of what’s going on.
It’s interesting because some practices are very good at it. Some practices are not very good at it. It is a software that you have to put some effort into. It’s not a fully automated solution although there are some great automated aspects to it like the responder track and some things like that.
To get started with it is basically you have to just as a practice decide that understanding what media is working is important to you and then understanding do you want to get better at converting your leads? Do you want to get better at taking that lead and moving it to consult?
That is the biggest bottleneck we see in the system is a huge abundance of leads. It’s typically not the marketing companies or the marketing of the practice that’s the problem. It’s moving them from that lead stage into office. Once they get into the office, we see very good conversion rates once you get them into consult. You’ve got to get them in the office.
The goal is to, once they’re in lead, how do we move them to consult? From consult, how do we move them to surgery? Then the final phase would be the post-surgery and post-surgical marketing items that would go along with it. The whole system hinges on those four main phases.
Joel: In some of our practices that we work with at Sightpath Creative, we use a service called CallSource. It allows us to record some calls intermittently. It’s amazing some of the things we hear when we play these back for people. Sometimes when they hear themselves, they’re mortified.
Because you’re right, it’s not super hard to get the phone to ring or an email hooked to come in or something to happen. The beauty is in, as you say, taking it from sort of lead to consult or lead to close, even better. When you think about the practices that you’re working with, what percentage would you think are sort of good at it? Are there some common characteristics that you see with those practices?
Michael: I think we probably have about 25 percent of the practices that are really good with it. There’s another 25 percent that have it that are just not really utilizing it to the full potential. You got to ask yourself, “Well, why would that be?” Here we have a really powerful tool. What’s going on?
What it is is the ability of the practice to get the staff or the appropriate staff, refractive coordinators, whoever’s going to use it, the user to be an admin. It could be multiple refractive coordinators. There’s a lot of ways to handle this. The administrator may view their access to see what all the refractive coordinators are doing and monitor that from a monitoring standpoint whereas the refractive coordinators are more using it to get people from lead to surgery.
I really think what happens is, I’m not trying to offend anybody, a lack of…the leader of the business needs to basically say, “This is valuable information, right? And we need to get this information, and so your job is to do X.” That needs to be more basically…you can’t let the staff just saying, “No, I’m not going to do it.”
The ones that do it well have a leader that has said, “This is what you need to do. This is the process.” You know what? They do more surgery.
Joel: When we launched the Crystalens way back when in 2004, which was, as you know, the first AT IOL on the market, that’s one of the things we learned early on was you had to have an initial meeting where the surgeon leader of the practice stood in front of the group and said, “We’re doing this, and here’s why we’re doing it. And everybody’s on the train or stand aside because it’s moving.”
Those practices that did that did really well. Those who said, “Well, we’re going to try a couple, and we’re going to see how it works and all the consults will go to Suzy. And if Suzy’s not here, then they’ll wait.” It just didn’t work. You have to be…
Like you and I talked about on the phone the other, I like the metaphor of a gym membership. The team at Sightpath has heard me say it many time that that’s really what this is like because paying your MDprospects or MDidentity build doesn’t really do a lot for you other than make you feel good that maybe you have a tool in place.
Unless you pick up that tool and actually hew the wood or pound the nail, nothing gets built. We’re in alignment on that.
You had MDprospects. You’re doing fine with that. Then tell me about MDidentity and where that fits in and what that’s all about.
MD Identity Software
Michael: MDidentity, in actuality, we’re really working towards the entire patient engagement solution, both pre-patient, which is where MDprospects sit, and then post-patient, which is where MDidentity sits. But there’s going to be a few other things that enter the suite.
MDidentity was our first foray away from MDprospects, doing something different. It’s certainly a software that’s not as unique as MDprospects because there’s other software out there that’s very similar, that can accomplish the same goal. I want to be clear about that. MDidentity probably has a better price point. It’s designed so that it can actually interface with the MDprospects.
Furthermore, what’s really important is the automation piece of it. This is really where practices save time is when this stuff…let me give you an example. If the integration points are there, like I said, there’s a few integration points with NextGen and iMedicWare, MDidentity will be able to understand what patients came in that day and then do a text message send requesting the patient that just came in to do a review.
This came out of the practice one day in the south. She was like, “I don’t understand. I go to my hair appointment. I get back in the car, and I got a text message asking me for a review. Why can’t we do that, why can’t we do that at the practice level?”
It’s just a few key points around that. There’s a HIPAA issue here that if the patient does not opt in at some point in the process, you cannot send that patient a text message. Once they’ve opted in, you’re all good to go.
MDidentity will help you get that opt in if you have not gotten at check-ins or a kiosk system or through other paperwork. There’s an app that goes along with MDidentity that basically the front desk would use to have them fill out a couple of survey questions and then opt in to receive the text. If you already have the opt in done, you can just completely automate the whole process.
Essentially, what MDidentity does is it basically helps the practices generate more reviews. We’re in a situation with reviews right now where these practices are held hostage by consumers. I would suggest one of the most important marketing agenda items would be make sure my reviews are in order because, I’m telling you, three star review is not going to get you a lot of patients.
Joel: How do you go about making sure that those are in order? How do you advise practices on how to go about step one, two, three, talk to me like I’m a second grader? How do you go about doing that?
Michael: [laughs] Getting more reviews is good for one reason. It helps you with your standings on Google. But it also will when someone looks you up, you’re going to see a good review. How do you get more reviews? There’s a lot of ways to do it. I think having a software system in place like a MDidentity is a way to catapult this into action.
There’s certain things you can do on the practice level. But it does take effort. It does take asking a lot of people. Sometimes, you got to do the basic blocking and tackling.
Let me give you an example with my client UCLA. After every cataract surgery in his post-op work, he directs each patient to the review us online page on his website and just asks them if they can write a review. That act alone gets him enough reviews.
Joel: I would think so.
Michael: He just personally asks as the physician. He personally asks the patient.
Joel: That’s great.
Michael: He doesn’t necessarily need the software in his particular case. He might get it anyway because he wants to continue to get more reviews. If you have bad reviews, you’re going to need to flush the…the main theme that most of these companies work by is getting more reviews will flush out the bad one.
Typically, the two places we’re going to be most concerned with are going to be Yelp and Google. Why are we most concerned with those? Those are the sites that have the strongest indexing capability. When you search a practice name, more than likely, you’re going to see those two sites. That’s why we focus on those.
But I would say let whatever shows up on that first page off search results guide where you decide to put your focus. If Healthgrades is where you’re getting all of the activity and that index is higher than Yelp, make sure you’re directing some reviews there. By the way, MDidentity fully integrated with Healthgrades.
Joel: I hear a lot of people seem to be most concerned about Healthgrades.
Michael: Healthgrades is an interesting situation because a lot of people don’t realize that there’s a lot of medical traffic on Healthgrades. People really think of Yelp more as the restaurant review thing.
Joel: That’s how I think of it.
Michael: It’s not. Healthgrades is really the place where the family CEOs are going, the women of the household that are making medical decisions. That’s where they’re going. That company has a lot of data on their user groups and types and everything. I think it’s definitely a review site that you have to consider.
It took us a year for the ability grab the reviews off there and put them into the system. It was a little bit of a process. But it worked out quite well in the end. I’m happy to be able to work directly with them.
Doctor practices and email lists
Joel: I spent time in the consumer market just because I’m interested in it. I study a lot about digital marketing and that sort of thing like you do. The overwhelming number one thing that I hear is you got to have an email list for a B2C type of business growth.
If you talk to an ophthalmology practice, it’s pretty rare that they maintain an email database and regular communication to those types of folks. What do you think about that? How do you think about that?
Michael: I’ll be honest with you. I think this is a great question. This should be standard operating procedures for any ophthalmology practice.
Michael: Absolute no-brainer. There is so many content marketing systems out there now, patient engagement systems, things like MDprospects and Solutionreach and Constant Contact. There’s all these different ways that you can stay in touch with your patient. It’s much easier to keep a patient than it is to recruit a new one.
Joel: Much more cost effective, too.
Michael: Why are we not continuing the conversation? This goes along with that great theme. I think Dan Derry was the one who came up with it, that tag line, “Vision for life.” You want to have that patient for life.
Why do not want to email them and talk to them on a regular basis, keep them in the loop as to what’s going on with new technologies, new vitamins, dry eye therapies, whatever it may be? Be the one to tell your patient about it. Don’t wait for your competitor to tell them.
Joel: That’s what’s interesting. You and I talked about this before, too. I wrote an article that I posted on LinkedIn.
It was about private equity’s effect on ophthalmology, trying to look into the future a little bit. I posited in there that one of the things that’ll happen is private equity will bring a metric to ophthalmology that I call lifetime value of a customer. They’re really into metrics, private equity as a group. I know it because I work with them. We’re owned by two private equity groups. I have an understanding of how they work.
One of the things they like are metrics. They’ll look at how are we interacting with this customer? What value can we get out of this customer? Because ultimately, they want to monetize the value of that customer. Call it a patient. Call it a customer. However, you want to refer to it.
I think one of the first things is how do we have a list of those patients? Then how do we interact with them in things like newsletters and just different content opportunities for them to learn and understand what we do?
Content Marketing with Doctors
How are you working with practices to implement or develop a content marketing strategy?
Michael: I think we’re working through systems like MDprospects. It can be done a lot of different ways. But MDprospects really just helps the whole thing automate. It’s got the whole built-in reporting system, so you know what the open rates on the email were. That’s what we’re using.
But at the base level, you should be getting email addresses from all of your patients with an opt in. You can at least send them a newsletter through something like Constant Contact. I think that newsletter thing is something I just like to talk about for a little bit because I’m surprised there’s not a more syndicated, better way to do this out there that everybody just subscribes to this. I’ve tried to create the product.
Typically, what happens is the practice wants to customize it to such a level that nothing gets done. Then you end up spending three months on a custom newsletter. Nothing goes out to the patient.
If you can stick with a constant newsletter program and you’re disciplined enough to do that once a quarter — because if you’re going to be custom, you’re not going to get it out more than once a quarter — you can get great conversions on surgeries from doing newsletters. We’ve seen it time and time again when we do it.
But we very infrequently do this. Because if you’re going to work on the project with all the writers and the designers and getting it all done, you’re looking at a pretty good amount of time. It’s going to be costly.
If there was a way to have a newsletter system that was syndicated or essentially the same content and you just used the content and you sent that out to your patients, at least they would get something. It could be inexpensive. There are some real good benefits to thinking like that.
The problem is some of the things that would be in a newsletter, like the practice isn’t doing dry eye, this is where the difficulties come in. “Well, I don’t really want to talk about dry eye. I want to talk about LASIK, you know.” That’s where it becomes difficult.
Joel: What’s interesting is they could use that as an opportunity to say, “Hey, let’s put dry in there because we get a lot of traffic on it, maybe it’s something we should be doing, right?” [laughs]
Michael: That’s a good point, Joel. That’s a really good point.
Joel: They could use it as a business development tool like business development people use it to understand the market.
Michael: Or, even if there’s some new information out there about new macular degeneration technology and they’re not doing retina in the clinic, great opportunity to have a referral relationship with a retina practice.
For me, I’ve always had a stumbling block why does it have to be about the business focus? It could be a little bit more broad. It could be inexpensive. You could get the message out. Personally, I would go with inexpensive on this kind of thing and getting the message out and keeping that communication and dialogue going.
Honestly, it could be as simple as they get the newsletter, “Oh yeah, I got to schedule my eye exam.” Somebody that reads the newsletter but they schedule an eye exam. Then you use engagement objects in the newsletter to bring them back in. It’s almost like a recall system.
Joel: You could even use it…I like your idea of a syndicated newsletter. As you know, at SIghtpath Creative, we’ve talked about that we used a campaign-based approach, sort of packeted. We’re going to do a syndicated newsletter. That’s a wonderful idea. I’m grateful that you shared that because we’ve worked on it.
Michael: Like I said, I’ve tried to do it. I have failed miserably.
Joel: We’ve danced around it. Even in the campaigns when we work with our practices, Michael, we find that they get bogged down because they want to change everything until it’s perfect.
What we try to do with our model is to say, “Look, here’s something you can do that’s simple, and you know, you get two edits to it to sort of customize it a little bit and then move forward.” We find that people sometimes get mired in, “OK, it’s got to say this. It’s got to say that. It’s got…” As you said earlier, nothing happens then. It just sits.
Michael: You got to ask yourself, “What’s the benefit of nothing happening versus at least making the communication?” That’s a huge disconnect.
Joel: I like a syndicated newsletter because you could tie it to so many things. You could tie it to a social media program where you’re launching content and the different channels there, the tieback into your newsletter to build some traffic and awareness there.
There’s just a lot of good things that could come from that. Even blog post topics or lots of things people could do if they’re willing to do the work.
Michael: Quite honestly, content’s getting easier and easier and easier for practices to get their hands on.
There’s a great site called eyefold.xyz that Jonathan Johnson put out which is basically more or less syndicated content that you can use in social media. It’s free for anyone that…probably for anyone. They just made this website. They launched it at the AMOU last year. There’s some really neat ideas in there.
Joel: What’s it called, eyefold.xyz?
Michael: Eyefold.xyz is the site. It might not be a bad idea for Sightpath to have something like that for their customers. This is probably specific to the J&J accounts.
But why can’t Glacial have something like that or why can’t Sightpath have something like that, just a content library that people can utilize? This stuff can be put on blogs. It can be put on a Tumblr page. It’s built through a Tumblr system, the Tumblr social media platform.
Joel: We have our own Sightpath resource library where we store a lot of things that people can access and different things.
Michael: That’s great.
Joel: We’re trying to do that. But like you, we have lots of things to do. We have a technical writer who’s been with us for a year and a couple graphic designers and a social media specialist, a couple of account managers. It’s a full team to help with what they’re doing. They keep getting better every day. I’m grateful for the work they do.
Michael: We need to bridge the gap between the fact that there are these entities out there that have these resources available and then the utilization at the practice level by the practice.
Joel: Are you finding that most people that you see that do well have a dedicated person? How are they working with…
Michael: I really think that the people that do it well are committed to, first of all, a good internal conversion mechanism. Whether that be a call center, whether that be a team of refractive coordinators that is then working in conjunction with probably a marketing director, that model seems to work the best.
The marketing director works with companies like mine, like yours, and is the quarterback of the whole thing and pulls it all together. That models seems to work the best.
Joel: We find that a lot. A lot of people could use the services of Bill Mercier and OptiCall. A lot of people don’t use it. Because you suggest it and they’re kind of, “Ah, I don’t need that.” Yet, the people that we have had that use it, they love it. I think you partner with them.
Michael: OptiCall for nights and weekends is a no-brainer. What are you doing with all those missed opportunities?
Joel: Because if you look at the data that’s out there, most LASIK especially, the calls come in between 7:00 and 9:00 PM. The office is closed.
That’s good. What would you like to talk about that perhaps we haven’t talked about?
Michael: To tie into the review thing, I think the point I want to make about the review thing is that reviews are very important. They should be taken seriously. I’ve seen a number of fraudulent reviews. This is something that you want to make sure you’re understanding.
We solved a fraudulent review for a client that had literally five stars everywhere. Then we got this crazy review on Healthgrades. It was obviously an industry insider. Somebody knew terms that only people like us use. The first attempt to talk to Healthgrades was not successful. “Sorry, it’s been reviewed. It’s deemed pertinent. Too bad.”
Joel: What do you do?
Michael: We kept pushing on them and pushing on them. Then finally, we got literally down to the decision-maker level. We said, “Hey, look at these. Look at this language here, you know. No consumer’s going to use these words.” We won the battle by pushing.
Google’s not as easy. We saw one last week where the doctor was called a butcher.
Michael: Basically, yeah, that was pretty much the review, “Butcher, don’t go here.”
Michael: We went through the process of basically telling Google, “Hey, this needs to be removed.” We went through our records. “This is not a patient.”
Unfortunately, good doctors can be subject to bad reviews. All of the sudden, you need to start playing defense here a little bit more than you used to, because the saying I use a lot, the consumer now has more control over your brand.
Joel: That’s true.
Michael: Before the Internet and these review sites, it was pretty much you just projected the message and the image that you wanted out in the media. That’s what people thought of you.
Now, you need to understand that the consumer has more control over what’s going on, and that has to be taken seriously. For me, this review thing is a very important thing to think about.
If you’re going to have a marketing budget and you’re going to spend all this money, then everyone starts to find out that you got a three-star review. As we see the consolidation of practices, I think the bigger groups are going to have a significant problem with this because of just the volume of patients that you’re seeing.
If you have a boutique practice that’s got a five-star review and you’ve got this behemoth that’s got three-star reviews, I’m going to want to use the best doctor. Maybe the majority of people don’t mind that.
I see this issue is not going to go away. It’s going to become a bigger problem for the consolidating groups. They’re going to lose market share or they’re going to lose patients, and the system is going to go backwards on them if they don’t be careful about this stuff.
To me, it’s almost the number one thing. You’ve got to get your reviews right. Then you can go do your marketing.
Once you get those two things working in tandem, when I have clients that do it, it’s unbelievable. It’s absolute market domination.
I’ve seen people come into markets not having had a practice and establish this, to great relationships with their patients, getting their patients to write reviews, say things about them on social media, and really build that vibe. It works. It really does work.
When it comes to reviews, though, there is something that I just want to say. You have to be very concerned with PHI or EPHI. This is the personal health information that HIPAA is so concerned with. Practices and organizations should not reply or post information that confirms the identity of a patient.
The fact that they may have had that service, or they made comments regarding specific services, you need to stay away from making a comment on that. If you reply to something that the patient put PHI in, that’s considered a HIPAA violation.
Joel: We’ve seen some horror stories like you have, where someone in the practice chooses to engage the person in a public forum. That’s just the worst thing you can do.
Michael: Yeah, it really is. One other thing on the HIPAA level is, if you’re going to get a testimonial to your website, you need to make sure you have written consent for that. Quite frankly, I would pull…
If you have testimonials out there on your website, I would take them down and build a new round with written consent. Put it in a folder, know where it is. This is a minimum $25,000 fine.
Joel: That’s a great tip. Anybody listening, that’s a good action item is, look at all your testimonials. Make sure you have those on file and have them handy.
Michael: There’s something that came out in Healthcare IT News this year, where it talks about a physical therapist that had to pay $25,000 over an unauthorized patient testimonials. I hate to see an ophthalmology practice get hit like that.
Joel: Me, too, yeah.
Michael: I’m certain that there’s many, many ophthalmology websites out there that violate this right now.
Joel: I’m sure there are.
Michael: When responding to these reviews, if you feel like you need to respond to them, make sure you just keep it anonymous. Try and take it offline if you can, focus on the positive, and you need to talk in generalities. You can’t talk about specific things related to their diagnosis, even if they’ve mentioned them in the review.
Joel: I’ve seen people who take the tack of, “I want to help you. Your opinion or your review, whether it’s valid or not, I want to help you get to a place where you’re happy.”
As long as they do that, stay positive and, as you said, try and pull it offline, I’ve seen people handle it successfully and continue to generate the positive reviews to drive it further down the list, if there’s nothing else you can do about it.
Michael: I love that approach, Joel. I really do. Keeping it positive is only going to be good.
Joel: You’ve done a wonderful job of what you’re building at Glacial up there in Portland. It’s a fun company.
Michael: Thank you.
Joel: I know you’ve got a lot of good stuff going on. We’re grateful for the work we do together, Mike. If there’s anything else that we can do or that you’d like to talk about, we can. Otherwise, it’s been a pleasure visiting with you.
Michael: Thank you, Joel.
Joel: I always learn something every time I talk to you.
Michael: [laughs] Appreciate that.
Michael: I look forward to having you on again when you have the next module available for your software.
Michael: Likewise, we’d love to get you on the Glacial podcast, as well.
Joel: Happy to be on there, let me know. Thanks, Mike.
Michael: All right.
Joel: Happy Thanksgiving.
Michael: You, too. Bye, Joel.
Joel: That does it for today’s episode of the “Cognified Marketing and Selling” podcast. I hope you enjoyed our guest, Michael Dobkowski, from Glacial Multimedia. Michael gave us some good tips on reputation management, how to go from lead to consult, and lots of other good tips along the way.
As always, thanks for stopping by. If you enjoy the work that we do here on the Cognified Marketing and Selling podcast, we’re always grateful for a review in iTunes, and if you’d recommend us to any of your friends. Thanks. Have a great day.